Wednesday, September 22, 2010

Update: Religious Statue Removed at Hoboken Charter School - Jesus now in safe hands

Update 9/23/2010: I spoke with a Charter School oofficial yesterday who stated that is had originally been requested by the Sisters that they wanted to keep the statue and had requested its removal as part of the de-sanctification process. They confirmed that Margaret O'Brien had indeed called them about it but the statue was already in the hands of the sisters. Vincent Rossi confirmed with me that there were some minor cracks in the base and that since the base was solid and the upper portion hollow it made removal somewhat difficult which could explain the minor damage. He believes he can restore the statue to very good condition as he has done in the past.

Update 9/22/2010:  The Statue of Jesus is in safe hands!

Long time Hoboken resident Margaret O'Brien sent me an email update on the status of the statue in question and it is in safe hand although there is some damage near the base:

"THE STATUE IS SAFE AND IN THE of VINNIE ROSSI who renovates and restores statues and other artifacts concerning Catholics. I e-mailed him this morning and he went and took "Jesus" out of the garbage and is in process of restoring it (the base got demolished ) and returning it to the SISTERS OF CHARITY who own it and will place it where they decide, in a church or convent.


WE DID THIS out of respect! I will send you the emails that went out and Vinny showed up on my corner to thank me... I spent several teen age years in a convent in Bayonne as my mother was ill and hospitalized frequently.

- Margaret"

Margaret O'Brien also gave me the restorer's email in a follow up and added "That "school" and the developer who got paid, removed that statue and did a bad job, cracking and ruining the base. VINNY will fix it, he did a fantastic job with OLG and other churches here repairing and renovating. IF I didn't call, JESUS would still be in the garbage."

Vincent Rossi sent me this response after I reached out to him via email:

"The statue in question, the one of God [aka] Jesus that was removed from the front of what was once Sacred Heart Academy at 7th & Washington St. Today it houses a Charter School .Under law they are prohibited from having this statue on site.

I was contacted by both Margaret O`Brien , Helen Cunning both extremely concerned over its where abouts and condition. I was informed that the statue was damaged during removal but repairable , And that it is to be returned to the Sisters Of Charity that founded and governed what was once known as Sacred Heart Academy .


Respectfully


- Vincent Rossi"

My comment: I would like to thank both Margaret O'Brien and Vincent Rossi for helping to save this piece of Hoboken history. As I predicted, this statue has meaning to those of that particular faith as well as those with a sense of the history of Hoboken. I am glad that the statue will now be restored and find a new home somewhere. You don't have to be a Catholic to have that sentiment.

Update 9/21/2010: Grafix Avenger has an update on this in her article http://grafixavenger.blogspot.com/2010/09/solved.html. She explains that a source emailed her with the following statement: "The Catholic Church requires de-sanctification. That statue removal is part of it." Hopefully, the statue is in one piece and has a safe storage place for now.

Update 9/20/2010: As per reader feedback I have retitled my post and toned it down. I am sorry if my non-PC humor at times may offend some but I do feel I was bringing up a valid point of view about historical preservation in this town. Being initially raised Catholic I have a sensitivity to religious artifacts even if I do not  currently practice that brand of faith. Sometimes the points I want to make my discussions get lost in my warped sense of humor.

Orginal Post 9/20/2010: The Hoboken Charter School is running behind in opening for the year. It has been reported that asbestos abatement and other construction costs have delayed the opening of the school. The Hoboken Charter School was originally slated to open today but they don't yet have their Certificate of Occupancy according to one Hoboken website and hopefully will open tomorrow.

In the meantime, the religious statue that was outside the Academy of the Sacred Heart at 713 Washington Street has been  cut off at the feet and removed from the front of the building. Since a Charter School is publicly funded I could understand and support the removal of a such a religious symbol to keep the separation of church and state but feel that perhaps the removal was "done in haste". After all the Charter School is only renting the facility so perhaps they could have covered up the statue with a temporary but nice wooden structure to protect this piece of Hoboken history. In all fairness (as a reader pointed out to me) perhaps the Academy owners (i.e. the Church itself) removed the statue but as the photo shows the very bottom of it was not sawed off cleanly.  Feel free to chime in your thoughts below...


Where is the statue now?

Religious artifact removed at the feet.

The now secularized Academy of the Sacred Heart building almost ready for opening.

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Comments (40)

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Kurt did you think to ask if it was the Church who removed it or the school?
FTR Churches have been demolished throughout this country by it's own members and it is the church itself that remains standing, not a building or statuary.

I think HCS needs a break here, these are good people trying to provide a great education for Hoboken's kids
That's really cheap shot Kurt.
Is this what you choose to focus on the day after the Mayor told off a priest because she didn't like his sermon?
2 replies · active 753 weeks ago
Alice- for the record, I am pro separation of church and state. I understand why the monument had to go down or at least be covered up.

However, since I was initially raised Catholic I can understand that removal of a religious artifact could be problematic for some especially those who are praticing Catholics or like me have a sense of preserving Hoboken History.

Yes, my headline was not politically correct but those familiar with my site have come to expect that from me. I wish the Charter School well in educating the children who attend. This post has more to do with the proper method of dealing with historical buildings such as these rather than any educational issue.

I hear from a source that the C/O is being held up due to a door nor being compliant. Hopefully that can be resolved quickly and the school can be opened soon.

Sent from my iPhone
Alice- for the record, I am pro separation of church and state. I understand why the monument had to go down or at least be covered up.

However, since I was initially raised Catholic I can understand that removal of a religious artifact could be problematic for some especially those who are praticing Catholics or like me have a sense of preserving Hoboken History.

Yes, my headline was not politically correct but those familiar with my site have come to expect that from me. I wish the Charter School well in educating the children who attend. This post has more to do with the proper method of dealing with historical buildings such as these rather than any educational issue.

I hear from a source that the C/O is being held up due to a door nor being compliant. Hopefully that can be resolved quickly and the school can be opened soon.

Sent from my iPhone
RG

I have no "thoughts". Really a non issue and a non story. Great juvenile speculation, though. And not really up to your standards. Someone else (Ply, perhaps?) posted about a week ago that the forum had jumped the shark. Did not think so then, but now........

Maybe an alumnus or just a drunken reveler from Saturday night made away with statue. I have had a 250lb concrete planter rolled down the street on several random Saturday nights. A little "genuflection" may have been in order before you hit the send button on this one.
Hopefully the statue was given to someone for the time being, instead of endinging up in a dump.
If it is still in one piece that is.
Oh boy, he come the religious nutbars. Religion is possibly the only thing more divisive than politics.
Not a nutbar Katie. Just thinking it was a pretty nice statue.
1 reply · active 758 weeks ago
I wasn't responding to you. Sorry if you thought I was.

I hit respond, walked away, came back and posted. Your post and Khoboken's post were not up when I originally hit respond (hint: Alice was).
Another Guest's avatar

Another Guest · 758 weeks ago

If this is just a temporary location for the school,
could they not have just built a little stable around it?
(no peeking!)
1 reply · active 758 weeks ago
Yes, this is not a monumental concern, so let's stop acting unstable around it, as if we've lost our marbles. We don't even know why it is gone but I would guess it is not coincidental a non-sectarian school is being opened there. With that being said IMO they could have just let it be and left it at that, but maybe the school had a statute about it that was set in stone. It's a shame it's gone for whatever reason, because after all, I'll bet most people who walked past it for years and years can't even remember what it looked like.
BTW best of luck for a great year Hoboken Charter School!
Thank you Kurt, much better.
It was a piece of our history and should have been left as is.
Elec Fraudberg's avatar

Elec Fraudberg · 758 weeks ago

Unfortunate, that your post was misinterpreted as an attack. I think many people have a hard time figuring out what to do with religious/historic icons, when they are no longer wanted. Donating or giving them to another church or museum is probably the preferred choice by those who feel troubled. Maybe/hopefully it was donated?

On another side, Michelle Russo seems to be using this to continue the Divide Hoboken Campaign. Apparently she wrote something like: the yuppies are even removing our religious statues. Funny she would say that when Helen Cunning(who happens to be a Hoboken native) is the board president. But I guess any rumor is a good one if it will insiite her campaign followers.
2 replies · active 758 weeks ago
"OUR religious statues". As in not yours. Charming.

Well at this point I don't think it matters if there is division or not, manufactured or real. The town is now filled with a wide variety of people, old and new, who are facing fading property values and high taxes, and they are more and more going to turn up at the polls to get things headed in the right direction. And I don't think the vast majority of them care one way or another where the next generation of tax relief ideas or politicians spent their childhood or what they think is going to happen when they die.
Think they are trying to tell us something? :(
Grafix Avenger's avatar

Grafix Avenger · 758 weeks ago

Oh, Kurt. Someone told me your original title and it was FUNNY. You can't please everyone. You should have kept it.

Now for a post that won't please anyone-- on this thread.

I *heard* the statue had been removed at the wishes of the (secular) tenant. If in fact true, I think it's obnoxious. Maybe even disgraceful. That statue may mean nothing to me, but for many in the community it does, and lopping a religious icon off at the feet isn't well... nice. Some religious folk may be horrified. The Charter is renting that space for 2 years... maybe they could have turned Mary around so she faced the wall .. or put her in a sari. I don't get why the destruction. Of a religious icon and one that has lived with us for so long.

I'm with the Big Guy on this one.

Sorry khoboken, still love ya, you insensitive cupcake.

A little sensitivity to the feelings of others goes a loooooooonnnnnng way.
3 replies · active 758 weeks ago
Where to begin? First, the statue was not lopped off at the feet. It was cut and the remains vaguely resemble feet, but are not the actual feet of the statue. Second, it was not a statue of Mary. And third, from what I hear, the school is purchasing the building. The current rental is due to the immense financial burden the school was placed in due to the very late notice of eviction from the Hoboken board of ed.
Elec Fraudberg's avatar

Elec Fraudberg · 758 weeks ago

3yrs notice is late? oh.
The official eviction notice was not issued until early 2010.
The HCS has been providing great educations for children from all walks of Hoboken.
I am not one who prays to statues or idols so this statue does not have meaning to me other than for its artistic and historical beauty.
The same thing happened when The City bought St Mary Hospital. They had to remove all images of religious nature
I believe one statue remains as an artifact but that is it.
This fine school needs to open and the students an parents don't need another stupid controversy.
The citizens of Hoboken are sick and tired of the us vs them garbage.
And for the record HCS's president is Helen Cunning I believe Helen is a very active member of the CAtholic Church and would never allow what is suggested in the above story.

Find another Shark to jump
1 reply · active 758 weeks ago
Tony,

I don't know if this was your meaning, but Christians don't pray to statues or idols, and some may take this characterization insulting. I know its not the Sistene chapel, but there are Catholic churches all over Hoboken that would have gladly taken the statue. A quick phone call to any of them would lhave gotten this taken care of. I myself consider it an oversight and not an indication of any lack of respect for the Catholic faith, but I still don't like how this was done.

Also, the Sisters could have had this taken care of before transferring the property.
Elec Fraudberg's avatar

Elec Fraudberg · 758 weeks ago

Stupid controversy? You make this about the charter school? you dont care about an object so, too bad if it's gone? who do you think you are?

This isnt about you, the charter school or what you think of the removal of the statue. The statue was historical and probably meant something to many people, especially alums. They are upset by the removal of historic statue.

Cunning would never allow the removal of the statue? So where is it? The point that you are missing is that a historical statue was removed and hopefully it was donated or given to the historical museum. This is not about the charter school or you.
Hey, in all due respect, how about getting a few facts of the matter on the record before pointing fingers and going any further?

Also, on this point I agree with TonyH: for now for the headline on this address let's just celebrate the hard-worked-for re-location and opening of a great asset to the community, the Hoboken Charter School!
Elec Fraudberg's avatar

Elec Fraudberg · 758 weeks ago

Who is pointing fingers at whom? Again, this seems to be about a historic statue being removed. Somehow it seems some believe it is about the charter school. The charter school only rents the bldg. The owners of the bldg ultimately have the say thus they have removed it. This issue seems to be more of a concern about the effects/views of people when removing historical pieces and possibly discarding them without concern for hisorical or secular concerns.

That the charter school happened to be incoming tenants, could certainly be an unfortunate timing issue, but not the main point (imho). As pointed out Russo is pushing this to say it is a new vs old issue. Yet, HCS is comprised of new and old. For goodness sake, Cunning is the HCS President.
All I am trying to get at is other than a poster named "herb" or some heresay heard by Grafix Avenger (hi!) no one seems to know how or why the statue was removed. School policy? State policy? State law? Vandalism? Theft? Sent into the shop for routine maintenance? Relocated? The particulars impact the debate and matters of culpability greatly.

I however agree with your concerns vis-a-vis historical preservation, should that indeed be an issue here. We just don't know yet.
Elec Fraudberg's avatar

Elec Fraudberg · 758 weeks ago

I don't believe School, state policy etc... would not be the issue as a public entitiy is renting the bldg vs owning. This happens to many schools/public entities when they need space. Also don't think it was theft or vandalism as there would probably be a police report and it would probably make the papers/blogs. My guess would be that it was removed without concern for those who admired the historical/secular appreciation of said object. Which is very unfortunate. Hopefully, it was donated.

All PC aside, it is kind of freaky that someone would cut off a secular icon and toss it- kind of creepy to me. Not that I am passing judegement, I just couldn't do it.
1 reply · active 758 weeks ago
I can be as mamby-pamby as they come, but I will go right ahead and say IMO if that if that statue ended up in a dumpster that's a violation of our history and just plain wrong.
Katie_Scarlett's avatar

Katie_Scarlett · 758 weeks ago

I am confused. For those of you who are upset:

Who would have paid to move this statue elsewhere and where is that place it would go? If the city had paid to move it, would we not be hearing outcries from people enraged that the city spent money on this while laying off cops? Where would it have gone - the historical museum or ? Does the museum have room for it? Does the museum want it? If a private entity moved the statue and housed it in public, would the neighbors of the new landmark make a stink and be upset? If a citizen paid to move the statue and put it in their home, would you not be enraged that you could no longer enjoy it/you didn't get it yourself?

Change sometimes stinks, no doubt about it. But to be this upset over a statue when we have a fiscal crisis in this city, state & country just seems really REALLY absurd.
3 replies · active 758 weeks ago
Well thanks for clearing that up. Since you think it is a waste of time, I guess that is all that matters. Hey Kurt, note to self: to hell with any other info/concerns, we are in a fiscal crisis.
Katie_Scarlett's avatar

Katie_Scarlett · 758 weeks ago

Instead of being snarky, you could answer the questions in a productive way. But oh wait, you don't have any answers, you just want to be cute.

Whatever. o.0 It's pretty obvious this was a damned if you, damned if you don't situation.
We have about 6 catholic churches in Hoboken alone, and any one of them would have gladly moved the statue for free. The sisters themselves, if given the option would have probably taken the statue rather than tossing it.
The search for order in our universe(s) continues. Please pass the salt.
1 reply · active 758 weeks ago
Another Guest's avatar

Another Guest · 758 weeks ago

Readers- I apologize for my editorial mishandling of the removal of the statue. I tried to be cute with a headline and it backfired based on the feedback. GA has a story that confirms it has to do with the desanctification as initiated by the church. Based on a source of mine I am able to confirm that option is indeed the likely explanation. It is never my intention to knowingly mislead my readers (because you are too smart for that anyway) and if my initial arcastic headline and snarky language did that I am sorry. Unlike the editor of Hoboken 411 and his angry little ghost writer who are never wrong and beyond reproach,I know how to admit there is always room for improvement.

I wasn't trying to make a point other than the historical sentimental importance it could have to some (expecially B&R Italian Catholics) which I am not. Communication is key, especially dealing with the removal of such artifacts. Lesson learned.
1 reply · active 758 weeks ago
Katie_Scarlett's avatar

Katie_Scarlett · 758 weeks ago

I thought your headline was hilarious. But I'm an unemotional robot. :)
Ref: Uptate 9-21-10: Thanks for finding out the facts of the matter. It's all good.

Ref: 9-22-10 update: This statue moves in mysterious ways. Thanks a million Vinnie.

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